This is a great discussion for us to be having - First, apologies to
anyone if I get my facts a little wrong! Second: This is wordy, I know
- this topic is one I find very interesting!
Faculty with joint appointments and ability to supervise students in
multiple departments is becoming more common, but how does a student
interested in working with a joint-appointed faculty member decide
which department to join?
The lack of distinction between career paths might be true in other
disciplines, but in geosciences I would caution that this is not the
case. In the past 12 years there have been ~30 advertised geoscience
education faculty positions that were filled, and the research-
oriented ones hired PhDs in science, with a few exceptions. With only
one exception that I know of (Iris Totten - she is a petroleum
geologist with a doctorate in education), the geoscience ed RESEARCH
faculty housed in geoscience departments all hold doctoral degrees in
science. If we expand and look at faculty in non-research oriented
positions housed in geoscience departments, then we have a few more
people with doctorates in education, but not many. Of course,
background is more than just the doctorate: I held a postdoc in
science education (PhD in tectonics), and Karen McNeal's PhD is a
unique combination of biogeochem and geoscience ed research. Some
folks, like Joe Elkins, hold teaching certifications. There are a few
places (Towson University, University of Arizona, James Madison, I
think) that house science education faculty with education doctorates
in science departments, but this is not the norm. A PhD awarded by a
science department (for geocog/geoed research or other) is, for now, a
must in getting a geoed research faculty position in a GEOLOGY
department. The National Research Council hosted a discussion in 2005
that might be of interest: http://www7.nationalacademies.org/CFE/STEM_Disciplines_Agenda.html
When we look at geoed researchers housed in EDUCATION departments, the
story is flipped. These faculty almost all hold education doctorates,
and many have requisite K-12 teaching experience (there were a couple
of dissertations written on this topic, in fact). An exception, sort
of: Heather Petcovic is tenure-home in a geology dept., earned a PhD
in petrology, and does most of her work through an interdisciplinary
institute. Her students earn MS in the disciplinary home and an
education doctorate through the Malinson Institute. I also know that
former NSF PFSMETE fellows (PhD in STEM, postdoc in science ed) were
almost all unable to move into education colleges; most (not all, of
course) who are in academia are housed in science departments or
interdisciplinary institutes. The lack of an education doctorate,
despite the postdoc, made getting a faculty position in an education
college quite difficult.
The story is more mixed for positions designed for places where
science departments conduct pre-service and in-service teacher
education. Some faculty are tenure-home in education and some are
tenure-home in geology, and the tenure-home usually reflects the
doctoral degree home.
Personally, I think having these divides inhibits the exchange of
ideas and sets up artificial barriers. Unfortunately, the realty is
that if a student wants a career in academia (not the only career
path!), then the choice of College for the doctoral degree will likely
dictate where they can get a job in the future. I hope this will
eventually change, and we can all do our part to help bring down these
barriers. For now, I want to help inform prospective students about
the choices they are going to need to be making early in their
careers. If a student is interested in teaching teachers or working in
an education college, I generally send them to colleagues in education
programs. I have even encouraged a student to work in someone else's
cognitive science program when I realized that my graduate program
might not be the best choice for the student's career plans.
Anyway, very windy, but this is a subject close to my academic-heart!
Take care and Happy Holidays,
Julie
On Dec 30, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Tim Slater wrote:
> Hi all! For us at Wyoming (and it was the same with the program we
> built at
> the University of Arizona where I just moved from), a distinction
> between
> college of science and college of education really didn't turn out
> to be
> very important. Some of the program faculty have joint or affiliated
> faculty status in both colleges and can supervise students in either
> college. The only real difference is which department students
> choose to
> take their qualifying examinations in as we have set it up with the
> intetion
> that our course requirements are pretty much the same. And, after
> having
> quite a few graduate students myself (and looking at the careers of my
> graduate school peers from John Carpenter's University of South
> Carolina
> Geoscience Education Research Program), I don't really see substantial
> evidence that these folks have actually ended up with different career
> tracks as one might initially assume. IMHO, Tim
>
> University of Wyoming
> Excellence in Higher Education Endowed
> Professor of Science Education
> Cognition in Astronomy, Physics, and Earth sciences Research (CAPER)
> Team
>> http://www.uwyo.edu/caper
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GEOEDUCATION RESEARCH INTEREST GROUP
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:46 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Wyoming: List of MS or PhD programs in Geoscience
> Education/Geocognition
>
> Julie:
>
> Yes, this distinction will be important for Arizona State too, since
> we can
> have students do a science-education research PhD in our own school
> or in an
> interdisciplinary program that is partly owned by the College of
> Education
> and partly owned by the Science and Math Schools. We do think these
> people
> will have slightly different career tracks.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GEOEDUCATION RESEARCH INTEREST GROUP
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Libarkin
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Wyoming: List of MS or PhD programs in Geoscience
> Education/Geocognition
>
> Tim and all:
>
> Tim's email raises a good question about the list of graduate programs
> in geoeducation and geocognition. Should this list include Phd/EdD
> programs in Education, such as Wyoming's, where there might be
> opportunity to focus on the geosciences and collaborate with
> geologists? I know of a couple dozen such programs - I'm thinking we
> should have two lists: one where graduate programs/advisors would be
> either housed in geoscience programs or joint between geoscience and
> education/psychology; and a second where graduate programs/advisors
> would be primarily in colleges of education. These represent two
> different career trajectories, I think...What would be most helpful to
> the community, and particularly to our prospective graduate students?
>
> This is a great opportunity to discuss!
>
> Also, Tim: Do you have a dual track at Wyoming where students can earn
> a degree in Ed or in Geology/Geophysics?
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Tim Slater wrote:
>
>> Dear Julie: Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to compile
>> such a
>> list. We would very much appreciate you including our brand new
>> geocognition Ph.D. program on your list at the University of
>> Wyoming. The
>> program can be done in the College of Education and in a growing
>> number of
>> the Arts&Sciences Departments here at the Universityof Wyoming.
>>
>>
>> University of Wyoming: Tim Slater, Jimm Myers
>>
>>
>> Thanks! Tim Slater, [log in to unmask]
>> University of Wyoming Excellence in Higher Education Endowed
>> Professor of
>> Science Education
>> Cognition in Astronomy, Physics, and Earth sciences Research (CAPER)
>> Team
>> http://www.uwyo.edu/caper
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GEOEDUCATION RESEARCH INTEREST GROUP
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Libarkin
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:06 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: List of MS or PhD programs in Geoscience Education/
>> Geocognition
>>
>> All:
>>
>> I am compiling a list of MS or PhD programs in Geoscience Education
>> or
>> Geocognition to post on my website. I have a list, but I am not
>> confident that the list is complete nor entirely accurate. I would
>> appreciate it if you could email me if you have additions or
>> corrections for this list. Some of these programs are housed in
>> geoscience departments, some are housed in education departments, and
>> some are in interdisciplinary institutes. I have not included
>> programs
>> that more broadly target earth/space/astronomy education on this
>> specific list as lists of space/astronomy education programs exist
>> elsewhere. I think the growth of graduate education opportunities in
>> geosci ed/geocog over the past three years is amazing! Well done,
>> everyone!
>>
>> Tentative List of Geoscience Education/Geocognition Programs
>> *List may not be exhaustive
>>
>> MS only
>> Northern Colorado University: Joe Elkins, Steve Anderson
>> Kansas State University: Iris Totten
>>
>> MS or PhD (I think)
>> Michigan State University: Julie Libarkin
>> North Carolina State University: David McConnell
>> Western Michigan University: Heather Petcovic
>> Arizona State University: Steve Semken
>> Purdue University: Eric Riggs, Dan Shepardson
>> University of South Florida: Jeff Ryan, Len Vacher
>> Texas A&M: Bruce Herbert
>> University of Akron: David Steer
>>
>> Take care and Happy Holidays!
>> Julie
>>
>> Julie Libarkin
>> Assistant Professor, Director - Geocognition Research Lab
>> Dept. of Geological Sciences & Division of Science and Math Education
>> Michigan State University
>> 206 Natural Science
>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>> 517-355-8369
>>
>
> Julie Libarkin
> Assistant Professor, Director - Geocognition Research Lab
> Dept. of Geological Sciences & Division of Science and Math Education
> Michigan State University
> 206 Natural Science
> East Lansing, MI 48824
> 517-355-8369
>
Julie Libarkin
Assistant Professor, Director - Geocognition Research Lab
Dept. of Geological Sciences & Division of Science and Math Education
Michigan State University
206 Natural Science
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-355-8369
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