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So based on that, I am just out of luck. But I still find it vexingly odd that whereas institutions throughout the world may readily participate in Google Groups, MSU cannot. As far as I can tell, it works like this: Those who do not have an agreement with Google have free access to all of Google services, while those who do have an agreement with Google are denied access to some of those same services with no compensating benefits. So I fail to see why anyone would have an "agreement" with Google under those conditions. Given that, I see two potential workarounds to this state of affairs: (1) Simply do what hordes of students and faculty already do and abandon MSU e-mail for Gmail, forwarding all my MSU e-mail to Google. I understand that the university discourages this practice, but under the circumstances this really does make the most sense. (2) Conversely, set up a specific Gmail account as sort of an extension to my MSU e-mail, and have all that forwarded to my MSU e-mail. Sadly, it will take considerable testing to figure out how well either of these solutions will work, and this really should not be my job. I just wish the networking people on campus could step in and help guide me through this. I ran this by Felicia and she then followed up with enough clarification to settle the matter. I quote that now essentially in full, and she gets the last word. /------------------- As for your first point, the problem of not having access to other Google products is discussed quite often here. Directors of IT Services have been involved. Some schools, Wisconsin if I remember correctly, have just enabled all core and consumer apps for their domain. Other schools have taken the same choice MSU has and only enabled core apps. On http://googleapps.msu.edu, there is a link to the Cloud Computing guidelines. Using a Gmail account should fall under those guidelines. Unfortunately, the guidelines are written so it is up to the end-user to make the judgement call. If you have a follow-up question about this judgement call, I can look into getting that answer for you. I have asked for easier ways for the MSU community to evaluate cloud computing (for example, outline good and bad use cases). I think there are some good reasons for not providing that. From my point of view formed during my career at MSU, MSU takes the the cautious approach to protecting user data whereas some other schools have leaned more towards openness in their own judgement calls with FERPA, etc.. I've brought your concerns up to my leaders like I have done in the past, but to be honest, I don't think anything will happen unless there is a big culture change at MSU. I can see the value of both interpretations. This is now beyond my scope, but I think it should help give you a glance of what happens behind the scenes. \------------------- At 11/8/2012 01:31 PM Thursday, David McFarlane wrote: >Not that anybody besides me cares, but I might as well close up this >dangling thread. > >After much trouble, I convinced the Help Desk to bump this up to the >campus Google Apps admin for clarification. I got the following >response from Felicia, which I quote in full (leaving off the stock >closing paragraph): > >/------------------- >Hello David, > >Sorry for the delay, but I wanted to do some testing and run my >answer by Google. > >The Google Apps for Education Edition used by Michigan State State >University has only enabled apps that are covered by our agreement >with Google, also known as core apps. Consumer apps such as Google+, >YouTube, Picasa, and Google Groups have not been enabled because >they are not covered by our agreement with Google. If you would like >to join a group outside of Michigan State University, like a public >group, you will either need to have the moderator of that group >directly add you, or you will need to use a consumer Google account >like a Gmail. If the moderator directly adds your msu.edu email to >the group, posting is prohibited via the Google Groups user >interface when the Google Groups >consumer app is disabled. You can still post to the group via email >if the group's settings allow for email posts by members. Google >says that this is "expected behavior." > >Consumer apps can be enabled for a Google Apps Education Edition >domain. However, everyone at MSU will be asked to agree to the >consumer ToS. If someone chooses not to agree, they will not be >allowed to access the core apps or consumer app. Also, Google will >not support consumer apps. So, if there was a problem, IT Services >cannot contact Google for help like we can with the core apps. As >stated above, consumer apps do not fall under the MSU agreement with >Google either. Data in consumer apps can be mined for ads, etc. like >any Gmail account. > >A separate core app called Google Groups for Business is available, >but not enabled for our MSU Google Apps Education Edition domain. I >have been given the go-ahead to move forward with adding this core >app to our Google Apps Education Edition offerings. I will need to >go through the formal IT Services change management process, so it >may take a few days to a few weeks to get final approval. With >Google Groups for Business, you can create groups in the MSU Google >Apps Education Edition, but it will not help you with joining groups >outside of our domain. I will likely post a news release about this >at http://tech.msu.edu/news/ (past articles are at >http://tech.msu.edu/news/tag/google-apps-for-education-edition/). >\------------------- > > >At 10/24/2012 02:02 PM Wednesday, David McFarlane wrote: >>At the risk of being a troll... >> >>I don't know why that should cause confusion -- use MSU Listserv >>for MSU groups, and reserve Google Groups, Facebook Groups, etc. >>for groups that go beyond campus. >> >>E.g., the one Google Group that I still belong to using my MSU >>e-mail is an international Group just for people using a >>specialized software platform for behavioral research. Joining the >>group means that I can get new posts automatically by e-mail >>(instead of having to manually go out to the web), I can post >>questions, and I can post answers for others. As a direct result >>of my participation in that Group, I have become the world's >>leading public authority for that specialized platform, my >>department has now parlayed that into making money through an >>online course based on my expertise, and I continue to promote the >>course through the Group. That would not have happened without my >>having access, through my MSU e-mail, to Google Groups. >> >>Now we have another specialized platform for me to learn. That >>platform has two Google Groups, one for general users, another for >>developers of the platform itself. Lack of access to Google Groups >>through my MSU e-mail seriously impedes my work at MSU. I wouldn't >>mind if campus has a general blockage of Google Groups, with an >>override provision on a case-by-case basis (faculty has already >>written an exemption case for me, without my asking), but we do not >>seem to have even that much. >> >>To repeat, have folks use MSU Listserve for MSU groups, and allow >>Google Groups and the like specifically for wider groups. Problem solved. >> >>-- dkm >> >> >>Leo Sell wrote: >>>Sorry, I can't elaborate. I can only provide info, LOL. >>>I know we've been very very conservative about the addition of new >>>"features" or services with googleapps.msu.edu. One small concern >>>I have about allowing Google Groups is whether it would result in >>>confusion about when to use MSU Listserv and when it's >>>OK/appropriate to use groups. >>>/L >>> >>>On 10/24/12 11:08 AM, David McFarlane wrote: >>>>That's great. I am aware of pros for allowing access to Google >>>>Groups, but no cons. Any chance you could elaborate? Maybe I >>>>just don't understand Google Groups "for Business". >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>-- dkm >>>> >>>> >>>>Leo Sell wrote: >>>>>We've initiated an assessment of the pros/cons of adding Google >>>>>Groups for Business. /Leo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 10/23/12 3:32 PM, David McFarlane wrote: >>>>>>I just learned that full access to Google Groups from MSU >>>>>>accounts are not allowed (this came as a surprise because I do >>>>>>have access to one Group that was grandfathered in, but don't tell anyone!). >>>>>>Why??!! I need to join two specific Google Groups as part of >>>>>>my job. How does the university expect me to do that? >>>>>> >>>>>>-- dkm