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Steve, I never said that, I’m sorry you looked at it that way. I just meant that it is a dumb idea to continue talking about something that no one will change their opinion on. It only leads to people getting frustrated and feeling like their opinion doesn’t matter, or others thinking them stupid. I think its counterproductive. I could go on for hours about how I feel about Apple but no one really needs to know that. So I’ll keep it to myself. From: Steve Bogdanski [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] Windows 8 Reaches RTM Milestone The sad state of modern discourse, "unless you agree with me completely, then there's no point in discussion" *sigh* -Steve Bogdanski >>> On 8/9/2012 at 10:09 AM, Tim Heckaman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: So what am I getting out of all this conversation. Nothing new. 1) apple fans still hate Microsoft and say whatever they make is stupid. 2) Microsoft fans say they’ll wait and see how it runs to have an opinion (because of Vista). 3) No one is going to upgrade to Win 8 right away. 4) We are all just wasting time reading and sending emails hoping others will agree with us but very few will. And to prove my last point I’m sure someone will respond and point out how wrong my assessment is. J From: Steve Bogdanski [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] Windows 8 Reaches RTM Milestone Problems with the grand "unification" strategy from M$: - There will be too different kernels, one for x86 and one for ARM, this will inherently cause fragmentation as some programs are developed for only one platform or their feature sets vary. Office 2013 is a great example since I have heard both that the two versions will be feature-equal and that there will be differences (who to believe). - The new interface (i.e. the UI formally known as Metro) only works well with newly designed applications and M$ hasn't been too helpful with many developers in getting non-sanctioned apps to work (just ask Mozilla). Microsoft still allows for legacy apps, but pretty much deprecates them. The looks/feel of non-UI-formally-known-as-Metro apps is horrible and I am sure many of you out there have to run one or more legacy apps for the foreseeable future (try dealing with medical and research software vendors). - There are two drastically different hardware platforms Win8 covers, touch-based and traditional keyboard/mouse, literally forcing the same UI on both is stupid. Not giving end-users an easy way to revert to the traditional (non-UI-formally-known-as-Metro) desktop and start menu is just pig-headed. There is a reason Apple still runs separate OSes for their desktop/laptop and touch-based systems (and I do not care what people say, Apple knows UI). PS: I am having deja vu regarding a similar thread on the NAG list when Vista came out years ago ;) PPS: I won't bring out the "shiny ball" comparison again -Steve Bogdanski >>> On 8/7/2012 at 10:00 AM, "Wortz, Joshua" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I think that everyone is missing the big picture. With Windows 8, Microsoft is now unifying all platforms under a single core and interface. Windows 8 empowers users to use the same apps on the desktop, on tablets (ie surface), and even windows phone 8. A unified interface to help end users. A unified kernel, and a unified development environment to empower developers to make their apps available cross platform. So that no matter what device you use, your applications and data can move with you. That is where they are headed with this, and I think it is great someone is looking at the big picture. It's not about being shiny and new, it's about unification of the desktop, tablet, and mobile devices. Oh and don't forget, increased ease of management and deployment for us system admins. :-)