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You are absolutely right that leaving the windows and doors open on ANY op system will lead to problems. The problem with MS though, is that its such an unsecure base that folks who obey the rules still get hammered. And, just reading what to do isn't enough. One great example is that if you have a new XP machine and hook it up to your cable modem to get all the patches you need, the chances of getting infected with something is huge. This just happened to two friends who got ThinkPads--the needed patches took long enough that each got something different. Have a phone connection and want patches? Thats almost a 100% chance of getting hit. You need a little nat box for this. We all know this. Is there anywhere that MS or any OEM explains this? I haven't seen it. Then of course the next layer is the stuff like leaving root passwords around, etc. That wasn't the point of my rant--before you can get to that level of unsecureness, you have to deal with the first part. ;-) I tend to think or security and this gigantic OR gate. --STeve Andre' On Friday 27 June 2008 07:55:36 Ehren Benson wrote: > And then of course there are the folks that leave the windows and doors > wide open to allow anything in that might accidentally wander that way, be > it salesmen knocking on doors (adware), bugs (viruses). And there are even > some who willingly accept the bugs, feed them and allow them to reproduce > (clicking on any and all weird attachment on unknown emails or popups) > > :) > > I am of course being OS Agnostic here, but any OS is only as secure as its > user. It's not Microsoft's or anyone else's responsibility to make it so > that all attempts by end users to make their machine as insecure as > possible by being ignorant fail. > > In our department in the past the number of machines compromised have been > probably 8 to 1 Linux due to people being irresponsible with their root > password. > > Ehren J. Benson, MCSE > Windows Systems Administrator > > [log in to unmask] > 517-884-5469 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MSU Network Administrators Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of STeve Andre' Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:12 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] XP or Vista Antivirus 2008 ..... Here is one > mechanism of infection > > Heh. This is not a new issue with me. Having used Windows since > Windows/286 days I've had some time to think on this. Somewhere > I have the original box for it. > > Using your analogy, there is room for blame on several levels. The > first would be the builder of the house--people in general do not under- > stand what makes a good one, not underneath. With one main house > builder that overshadows all the others, it takes some determination > to not go with that builder. > > Certainly one can place blame on the thief, too. Regardless of the > type of house it isn't ethical to attempt to barge in. I can't blame > the neighborhood; it simply is. Law enforcement isn't capable of > dealing with the sheer numbers of thieves: there are too many of > them. > > The owner of the house doesn't know, at least 99% of the time > that there are other builders out there and a house that leaks is > not inevitable. That number is rising; I have had people at public > places like Panera see that my login wasn't Windows and wanted > to know what it was. That never happend before this year. > > Leaving the analogy, the situation for Windows has gotten radically > worse in the last year. Symantec said that they found more new > malware items in the last 1.5 (or 2?) years than the previous 18. > Attacks never get worse, they evolve. Bot nets are incredibly > large and getting better. Go to clamav.net and watch the number > of new entries grow each day. > > The situation is getting worse. Rapidly. > > --STeve Andre' > > On Thursday 26 June 2008 22:46:06 Charlot, Firmin wrote: > > There is no doubt that there are strong feelings here. Why don't we step > > back for a moment, cool off and take a look at this analogy just for fun. > > If a house (user's computer) gets broken into because windows (WindowsXP, > > Vista, etc) were breached whose at fault? Do you blame the house, the > > windows, the thief (hacker) ,the neighborhood (network) ,law enforcement > > (IDS, IPS, Firewalls, Anti-virus, Anti-spyware, Anti-SPAM, etc) or even > > the owner? > > > > Firm. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MSU Network Administrators Group on behalf of Troy Murray > > Sent: Thu 6/26/2008 4:35 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] XP or Vista Antivirus 2008 ..... Here is one > > mechanism of infection > > > > Amen > > > > -t > > > > On Jun 26, 2008, at 3:21 PM, STeve Andre' wrote: > > > No, more like terminally disgusted. We're talking about a company > > > that > > > has created a world-wide standard of an operating system, which has > > > helped the world considerably. I remember the days of individual op > > > systems, all entirely incompatible and generally strange. > > > > > > But MS did not care about security. Not one bit. I have talked with > > > three software people who once worked there who were publically > > > excoriated by none other than Bill Gates himself, for expressing "The > > > dumbest idea I've ever heard" when talking about issues that related > > > to security and reliability. How MS has managed to avoid massive > > > ostracism for creating this OS--or rather, how MS managed to teach > > > the average person that a computer "naturally" blows up, slows down, > > > gets sick, crashes and is difficult to use is one of the most amazing > > > PR jobs in history. > > > > > > Windows has some good points. Its existence has created a playing > > > field unequal to anything that has ever come before it. > > > > > > But at an unbelievable cost: hundreds of billions of dollars in total > > > on "security" and security related incidents over Window's lifetime. > > > > > > THAT is what I am disgusted at. > > > > > > --STeve Andre' > > > > > > On Thursday 26 June 2008 14:58:14 Ehren Benson wrote: > > >> Haters.... :/ > > >> > > >> Ehren J. Benson, MCSE > > >> Windows Systems Administrator > > >> > > >> [log in to unmask] > > >> 517-884-5469 > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: MSU Network Administrators Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > >> On > > >> Behalf Of STeve Andre' Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:27 PM > > >> To: [log in to unmask] > > >> Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] XP or Vista Antivirus 2008 ..... Here is one > > >> mechanism of infection > > >> > > >> That was me... > > >> > > >> --STeve Andre' > > >> > > >> On Thursday 26 June 2008 14:09:30 Tom Rockwell wrote: > > >>> Interesting Diane Rehm show yesterday > > >>> http://wamu.org/programs/dr/08/06/25.php > > >>> > > >>> Listen for the caller from MSU unloading on Windows. :-) > > >>> > > >>> -Tom > > >>> > > >>> John Valenti wrote: > > >>>> Which humans are you referring to? > > >>>> > > >>>> (I'm assuming you mean the people who click to follow a random link > > >>>> in my rant...) > > >>>> > > >>>> Where is the outrage about the crappy OS? We are now in a world > > >>>> where > > >>>> people infect their computers by clicking on a link, and we blame > > >>>> the > > >>>> victims? I could see the Internet developing in the late '80s > > >>>> and if > > >>>> you would have told me it would turn out similarly to the current > > >>>> Windows situation I would have laughed at you. What set of > > >>>> intelligent people would let things get to this state! > > >>>> -John > > >>>> > > >>>> On June 26, at 2:14 PM June 26, Robert Kriegel wrote: > > >>>>> Yup, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Unfortunately, its the humans whose risky behavior security > > >>>>> patches > > >>>>> still refuse to stick too. I guess Ron White is right. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Bob Kriegel > > >>>>> Animal Science > > >>>>> > > >>>>> At 11:42 AM 6/26/2008, you wrote: > > >>>>>> Holy crud -- I got a message about a disaster in China that has > > >>>>>> killed "millions", and a web site to see video. At that point > > >>>>>> I was > > >>>>>> offered beijing.exe, which clam didn't know about as of an hour > > >>>>>> ago. So its definitely spreading. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> --STeve Andre'