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Why is it that all of a sudden web-interfaces to email are expected to be "professional"? I would argue that email web interfaces are still maturing (Outlook Web App 2010 is really, really close to the real thing; the rest aren't even close). If you want a professional interface, use an email client, as Mr. Schrock suggests. MSU's email service experienced from a client is quite good. I suspect that the web interface will improve over time. Brian Hoort -----Original Message----- From: MSU Network Administrators Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary Schrock Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] A note about MSU's first e-mail system, circa 1983 -- and in 2009 While I won't argue with you on the whole forwarding email being a pain to find in the current MSU system (I've had that same problem many a time, and get completely frustrated by it myself), the whole amature/professional part I think is entirely in the eye of the beholder. As an example, I'm not convinced I'd consider gmail a "professional" email service. I don't consider a service that locks you into a method of displaying your emails that's completely different than what you can get in basically every other email client/service anywhere to be professional. Locking you into the conversation method of sorting email is to me a sign of an incomplete, immature product. To me, google is only usable through using a client, because the web based browser of theirs is complete junk IMHO. (And I recognize that many people don't have that same opinion.) Google's also had some reliability problems lately (both being down, and at least some circumstances where email was being delivered to the wrong recipients). The whole deliver email to a wrong recipient is something that anyone using it for to do correspondence having to do with grants should really think about, because it could easily be an issue. Now, is MSU's system professional? Maybe, but it definitely has its own flaws, and quite frankly, I'm not overly convinced that some of its more recent changes haven't been steps backwards instead of forwards. (The whole filters only run when you log into the web based part of the email is one of those things that I think was an odd decision, and causes some of my users problems). I also have some users that seem to get an inordinate amount of spam through the MSU system that I'm surprised its not stopping, and can't help but wonder if that's related to the whole filter issue. MSU's help for their email systems also seems to have taken a step back. Before they did the last conversion, it used to be you could pretty easily get from the mail.msu.edu page to a page that gives you information about setting up clients to check mail. Now it seems you have to jump through a couple of pages, and search your way through the FAQ to get to that point. Of course, personally, my solution was to run my own :). Largely because back in the 90's, I found MSU's system to be so unreliable, that the people I worked for just couldn't trust it to do its job properly. I will admit that MSU's system has been a lot more reliable these days than it used to be. Gary Richard Wiggins wrote: > A couple things happened at the same time in the last couple of days. I > desperately needed to communicate with MSU HR using an msu.edu > <http://msu.edu> address, and WIlliam Safire died. > > Increasingly MSU treats e-mail as official. It's really important to be > able to forward your MSU e-mail to a professional service, as opposed to > mail.msu.edu <http://mail.msu.edu>. Since mail.msu.edu > <http://mail.msu.edu> is amateur, MSU needs to make it easy to forward > to a professional service. > > I literally spent an hour trying to figure out how to set forwarding in > the new mail.msu.edu <http://mail.msu.edu> interface. I may not be the > sharpest knife in the drawer, but I could not discern how to accomplish > a simple task that MSU requires thousands to complete. > > When I wrote MSU's first e-mail system in 1983, it was state of the > art. That's because there was no art. It was primitive. We had no > clue. That was 1983. It is 2009. We should be smarter now. I wasn't > around when MSU chose its current e-mail system. But to bury a vital > function such as forwarding -- which is now an essential thinig, > which MSU demands -- under an obscure tab labeled "MSU Prefs"-- this is > not just primitive. It is incompetent. > > It also took more than 24 hours for my former colleagues at ATS to cough > up simple information vital to me -- how do I set forwarding in this > poor interface. We were better at FAQs in 1957 than we are in 2009. > My colleagues are good people but the standard of service is poor. > Questions should be answered in minutes, not days. And if the primary > campus e-mail service hides forwarding under a label of "MSU Prefs" > given a ribbon bar of normal options for the app, there is a problem. > > http://wigblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/when-william-safire-quoted-me-on-e-mail. html