Thank you John for your call for civility.  My suggestion would be to 
allow both of these individuals a second chance.  Perhaps after seeing a 
number of responses they will recognize that we as a community will not 
accept the lack of respect they showed in their recent exchange and will 
choose to join us in further civil discourse. 


Dutcher Farms wrote:
> Hello All,
>     First off I want to say that I have grave reservations over HR875, 
> and I also disagree with some of the things Vicki said in regards to 
> the bill, especially after having read some of it, the language is 
> very broad,general and interpretation could be taken from different 
> angles in regards to who is doing the interpretation. There seems to 
> be many more regulations and bookeeping involved( seems the onus 
> always falls on the small producers!),and is very invasive. The 
> penalties are also quite extreme( possible jail time and one million 
> dollar fine for each offense and according to interpretation, a 
> million dollars a day for each day of non compliance), in the case of 
> the peanut debacle, if the federal and state regulators had been doing 
> their jobs, people would not have died or fallen ill. Paying off 
> inspectors seems to be the norm in much of the food industry these 
> days( I have seen it myself over the last thirty years), then you also 
> now have,in many large plants, the "inspector" being an actual 
> employee of the company, this has been going on now for a few years, 
> HAACP trained employees doing the actual inspection, no conflict of 
> interest,of course. There is a lot going on "out there" and has become 
> very hard to even keep up with the overload of information and fear 
> mongering over food safety, many folks seem to forget that "life" 
> itself is not "safe"! I have requested from my house rep.( Bart 
> Stupak) a copy of the bill(HR875) as introduced to committee,as I have 
> not been able to find the "whole" bill, no answer yet. The bill may 
> not be as bad as we think,as long as there are some clear exemptions 
> for direct farm to consumer sales.
>     Secondly, there seems to be some communication going on between 
> inividuals, instead of sending to the complete list-serve, please 
> folks send to "reply all", it makes it very difficult to know 
> everything said when you do not receive ALL the e-mails, if you only 
> hit the reply button,your reply will only be sent to the individual 
> that originally sent the message. Receiving bits and pieces is very 
> confusing!!
>      I see there was a request to have someone removed from the list 
> serve for not following the 'rules", from what I see, both individuals 
> were rude to each other. Personal attacks and profanity really have no 
> place here, this only causes a communication break down and does 
> not resolve anything, PLEASE folks, just agree to disagree. Freedom of 
> speech and expression is fundamental, but should remain "civil". This 
> type of behavior is one of the main reasons the organic movement in 
> this state has remained fragmented for so many years, I believe we all 
> have some level of interest in moving forward and not to remain 
> stagnated as has been. Michigan has been trying to play catch up now 
> for some time, especially in regards to the progressive movements in 
> the northeast and northwest portions of this country, I do not believe 
> any of us want to remain in the "dark ages". I really enjoy receiving 
> the information forwarded on this list-serve and would hope to 
> continue to do so, now more than ever, we need a united front.
>                                                   Thank You All in 
> Advance,
>                                                          John Dutcher
>                                                         Dutcher Farm
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* (Stan Silverman) <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:10 PM
>     *Subject:* Fwd: More information sites - HR 875
>     Request this individual be banned from this site as they seem to
>     not want to follow any "rules" of interchange
>     Stan - Good Neighbor Farms 
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         From: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>         To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>         Sent: 3/25/2009 4:55:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
>         Subj: RE: More information sites - HR 875
>         obviously you are f*cked up republican
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         *From:* [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:53 PM
>         *To:* [log in to unmask]
>         *Subject:* Re: More information sites - HR 875
>         YOU!
>         In a message dated 3/25/2009 4:42:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight
>         Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
>             what is your problem?
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
>         less
>         <>. 
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
>     less
>     <>. If
>     you would like to access a searchable archive of the all the
>     previous Mich-Organic listserv postings copy this URL and paste in
>     your browser address field
> If you would like to access a searchable archive of the all the 
> previous Mich-Organic listserv postings copy this URL and paste in 
> your browser address field 

Larry Dyer, Ph.D.
Michigan State University Extension
Bay Mills Community College
12214 W. Lakeshore Dr.
Brimley, MI 49715
906-248-3354 x 8456
[log in to unmask]

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