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Sorry...correction again... Nick was talking about the two meetings related to the raise in dues which we did in fact get 1 days notice for (since I got my newsletter in the mail on Monday and the meetings were on Tuesday) I cant along with everyone else and drop work to attend these things on little or no notice. I relize there was one in the evening however I along with others carpool to cut our costs on fuel in this troubled economy and was long gone from campus before that one. It bothers me that I was not able to attend since this is so important. Ehren J. Benson, MCSE Windows Systems Administrator [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 517-884-5469 From: Ehren Benson Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:27 AM To: Ehren Benson; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: [MSUNAG] APA raise Correction, Nick said the member meeting was today, when in fact it is next Tuesday, so we did in fact get more than two days notice. Just for the record. Ehren J. Benson, MCSE Windows Systems Administrator [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 517-884-5469 From: MSU Network Administrators Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ehren Benson Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:26 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] APA raise I love how we get 2 days notice on these big "annual meetings" as if we don't have real jobs with real commitments. I feel it is our right to attend such things and given two days notice is not enough, I am trying to work it out so I can go but I don't know if I will be able to due to some meetings I have today. "It also became apparent that 100% of our dues go to the MEA/NEA, which then provides services back to us. We do not keep any money in our local." Tha just gives me the shivers...bad business if you ask me. For the type of organization MEA is I don't understand why we send 100% of our money to them. MEA is about lobbying and putting pressure on K-12 Education, bus drivers etc. If you look in your MEA voice newsletter you get that's what its all about. There is nothing in there about Higher ed health care, salaries etc etc....NOTHING! So why is it that we pay them 100% of our dues to put that back toward K-12? If I was a highschool teacher or staff I would be happy to be affiliated with MEA as they do great things for K-12...for sure. Aside from that given that APA is its own organization we should lean less on MEA and work with them instead of them being more like our union than our union is. You know what I would really like to see, is what you would get with any reasonable business decision. A full cost/benefit analysis on being affiliated with MEA and a couple alternative APA structures also with UNBIASED cost/benefit analysis reports and actually see where we are. I am talking serious in depth reports, not just surface scratching info. EXACTLY what benefits do we get from MEA and at what cost. What amount of money does being affiliated with MEA actually save us PER YEAR on average in legal fees so that we can fully understand on average what we would need to be able to support ourselves. It is absolutely no secret that other unions are doing just fine on their own and even have real member benefits like Nick mentioned about unused CASH BACK! I have heard that APSA also has two annual member meetings with full lunch and everything provided....yes for under $20 a month in dues. Personally I would rather pay less and not have two lunches but hey, we have one meeting with NO LUNCH and still pay over $60 a month...go figure. Ehren J. Benson, MCSE Windows Systems Administrator [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 517-884-5469 From: Kwiatkowski, Nicholas [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:54 AM To: Ehren Benson; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: [MSUNAG] APA raise Ehren et. all, Yesterday evening I attended one of the informational sessions that the APA hosted in Com Arts regarding the increase. There were something like 5 or 6 of us there. While we didn't really get any straight answers as to the increase, but we did get the following (this quote is as close as I was able to short hand it down) "The MEA changed our rate structure a few years back, and we've been holding off increasing the rate for our membership since then. We've been using our bank accounts to compensate for the massive increase that our group has sustained. This increase is to compensate for this increase, because we are unable to continue subsidizing this cost through our bank account for much longer. It was best to do it during a year where we have a large raise." There was a rep from the MEA that was present, and when asked as to where the money went, he referred us to the calendar booklet that came with our last union packet (a few months ago, I think). It also became apparent that 100% of our dues go to the MEA/NEA, which then provides services back to us. We do not keep any money in our local. Any money that does end up in our accounts is due to accounting errors, or delayed charges. This one really caught me by surprise as I would have thought we would have set our selves up to set aside some money, just in case. When I compare how our union is doing to others in my department, the 999, 1585, APSA, CT, it just seems to me that the other unions are getting the exact same benefits that we are, but our costs are much higher. I don't believe (some please correct me on this one, as I didn't do the research), that any of the other groups are affiliated with the MEA/NEA. The closest group, cost wise that I'm aware of is the 999, but at the end of each year their union returns the un-used portion of their general fund to their members as cash (sometimes in the hundreds of dollars). Now I will end this message by saying I've been a member of the MEA/NEA in good standing for just about 10 years (due to some p/t work I did with a MERIT affiliate in the past). They have provided me some benefits, including a subsidized rate on my home insurance. There ARE benefits to the group, but they are very obscure and hard to find. I feel that our union reps need to quickly find these benefits and let us know what they are, and how to take advantage of them (other than the MEA housing the APA offices -- I don't see that as a huge benefit), or they may be faced with a very troubled base of memebrs. I hope Maurice gets a higher attendance for his brown-bag lunch meeting today. Our leadership needs to hear our issues, or they may think there are none. If we keep these discussions to lists he is not on, we can't expect him to know what is on our mind. Those that are deeply troubled by the increase should show up. -Nick Kwiatkowski MSU Telecom Systems ________________________________ From: MSU Network Administrators Group on behalf of Ehren Benson Sent: Tue 10/7/2008 6:25 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] APA raise How often we forget that the people whom a portion of our dues we pay goes to work FOR us. We pay them. I agree with David. If there is going to be a raise in the amount we pay it should be clearly shown to all of the membership exactly how much goes to where, WHY the increase is neccesary (aka, what is falling short...EXACTLY) and we SHOULD have this put in front of us, without even asking. Instead of just getting a newsletter which says "by the way its neccesary to increase dues" with no charts figures or otherwise explaination of what exactly those dues go to. I also would be very interested in a comparative chart of all labor unions as David was talking about. The union says we are "on par" with all others but I know of at least a few that pay under $20/mo and the unions are just fine. Ehren J. Benson, MCSE Windows Systems Administrator Department of Physics and Astronomy Michigan State University 1209 A Biomed Phys Sci [log in to unmask] 517-884-5469 ________________________________________ From: MSU Network Administrators Group [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jon Galbreath [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:59 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] APA raise I'm guessing that this information is contained in the union contracts, which are all available through the HR website. Opening a PDF and doing a search for 'dues' would probably give you the information you need instead of just demanding the information be put in front of you. Jon Galbreath MCSE/Security+ Systems Administrator International Studies and Programs Ph: 517-884-2144 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: MSU Network Administrators Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] APA raise At 10/7/2008 04:38 PM Tuesday, Robert Kriegel wrote: >Many of the answers to the Qs Tim posed earlier on the APA website >at www.msu.edu/~msuapa. Perchance could you be more specific? That just gets me to the home page of the MSU APA web site, I would not know where to navigate from there to find the answers to said questions. Thanks, -- dkm