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Ok, sorry the last post was perhaps a rant that was hard to follow, so let me take a chance at clearing things up, or at least in regards to Mr. Andre's questions/comments. "The days of free speech are over? What are you saying?" Simply that. What I have over and over in not only these posts, but from personal experience, is that MSU as whole puts on this presade that working for a university is vastly different than working for a private company. I highly beg to differ on this. Why? Let me ask you a few questions; 1. Does MSU as a whole have a product they produce? You get your booty they do! They produce highly professional and educated (hopefully!) individuals for todays current workplace. 2. Does MSU charge for thier services? In one word, yes. Although they are not the highest (close) or lowest charging university, they still do require a fee (from either the student or a grant or whomever) to attend their classes. 3. Is there another place that provides the same services as MSU? Yes...sorry, not going to provide a total list. Ok, so you produce a product you charge for and you compete against others for this right. Sorry, but any organization who does that is a BUSINESS. Since MSU is a business, then shouldn't they actuall think about perhaps acting like a business? Any data that flows across any companies network is considered business property, and as such is not subject to any free speech/freedom of information rules. MSU needs to stop fighting against the idea they are a business, and think about how they could improve thier instituion by being one. "Whenever that rule existed, it isn't here now, and hasn't been since 9/1996 when I started here." I started working for MSU in 2000 and when I attempted to bring in a vendor to protect our 2000 AD network via a firewall, I was told by my superiors, whom went to campus networking, that I would have to get an written approval from the provost BEFORE I institued the firewall. In order to get that approval I had to attend a meeting with campus (and I am sorry, but I honestly cannot remember the name of the organization back then) whom told me that they FROWNED upon my descision as it would be in front of my SMTP route out and that it could potentially be used to monitor email traffic. They suggested I find another approach, and would 'inform the provost' or thier ruling. I was straight out of the corporate environment at the time, and let me tell you my boss had to almost physically restrain me from throttling the folks across the table from me. Oh and when I mentioned hippy, well...the guys were either wearing dickies or (and I kid you not here) tye died t-shirts, and there wasn't a single person who DIDN'T look past the age of 65. "MS isn't run by satan, but neither does it code well. THAT is my concern." Uhmm..no offense, but your telling me that YOU all code better? Or perhaps that some home baked company codes better? Look, ANY code can get cracked/hacked/whatever. I would expect this group more than a lot of others, to understand that given enough time/reason, nothing is secure. The major difference is what the person/company can do for a business AFTER it gets cracked. Or after it breaks. Or after it melts. THAT is what Microsoft provides that you seem that you want to ignore. To this day I use/have used a lot of good free, or homegrown products, however I also understand when I use them it is a 'good luck with this use'. Let me point out again that MSU is a business, and as such cannot, nor should it even desire, a product that support is based upon a small group of coders working on a limited budget. MSU needs to act like a business and DEMAND they have business level software and support. "I'm really puzzled at what you are saying. MSU is not a centralized IT structure, and I think thats a good thing. MSU provides a lot of services that work pretty well, but if a department wants to do otherwise, it can. How can that be improved on? This provides choice." Actually, what you are suggesting works well when you are talking about companies competing against each other. Nothing produces a lower priced, better quality product than competition. However, MUS is NOT made up of multiple little companies, each with a different goal. And honestly, until MSU stops thinking about itself as such, it is doomed to being viewed as the 'other choice' university. Each and every department in MSU needs to honestly think about HOW they get their money (well, shy of athletics..another rant..sorry)...tuition. In essance, if you want to keep your department running (and thier job), then they need to think about how they contribute to actually getting a student to want to attend MSU. As a father of two children entering that age frame, I have found out the weakness of teen-agers/children/college kids...the path of least resistance. Make it look fun, and make it beyond easy to do and they won't blink and eye thinking about doing it, in fact make it look REALLY good and easy and they will ASK you to let them do it. The whole departmentalism thing at MSU works totally against that. Tell a kid he has three different email platforms, or that he cannot check his buds calendar becuase he is in a different college, and give them some BLAH interface to get their information (one they feel embarrased to show the cute girl back home), and guess what they will think? Provide them with a single point of interface to get information about class/buddies/events/etc. and make it look snazzy and they will brag to thier little brothers, and their friend, etc. That will get the campus name at least on thier minds when they think about going to college. Look, this post is probably waaay to long, so I apologize, for not only this, but the rant. All I want is the freaking place I consider home to my favorite people and sports teams, to be a place I would be proud to send my kids to (now on my dime)!