Hi Cindy and other MIO farmers
So I take it I can put you on the mentor list for transitioning and new
organic farmers? :-)
I was thinking this weekend that I need to do some official gathering
for the mentors to meet, for those who have mentored in the past to
share their experiences (+ and -) and a good old fashion pot luck. Does
this sound like something appealing to you? I would do it north of
Lansing, say Gladwin. Is that close enough for you to make on a Sat
afternoon? I know the time for planting is drawing close so either I do
it now or wait till fall. But I think I would like to have 3 gatherings
in the state so should wait to fall, plan it well and get good
attendance. I could also get a feel for what info/program folks would
like to have. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? Please share
Thanks a lot and hope to hear from all of you farmers interested in
being a mentor!!
Happy Planting
Vicki
Vicki Morrone
Organic Vegetable and Crop Outreach Specialist
Michigan State University
C.S. Mott Sustainable Food Systems
303 Natural Resources Bldg.
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-353-3542
517-282-3557 (cell)
517-353-3834 (fax)
http://safs.msu.edu/
http://www.mottgroup.msu.edu/
________________________________
From: MI organic growers seeking info and ideas
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dutcher Farms
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Local vs organic
In my opinion, this discussion is missing the forest for the trees! As
we will all have to face the reality of climate change and the results
of the long time abuse of fossil fuels, can we not set aside all of this
hair splitting about certification and look at the reality that we are
all facing? One big thing I have noticed at the organic groups is the
farmers are getting quite old!!! Please THINK about- what is this all
doing to mentor younger people in our region to grow good food for our
communities? Who in my community can I help to make true change by
educating them and providing food that has not travelled a thousand
miles? What can I do to really implement change in our food system? I
went to my local grocery store, they are starting to carry some organic
veggies, and I was astounded to see that there were certified organic
tomatoes from, no not California, no not Florida, no not even Mexico,
but Israel!!! No footprint on the environment there, eh? So is it really
important who did what in the past? The reality is that this last year
our country became a net importer of food for the first time in our
history! These are the issues that I would hope that the
organic/sustainable community can tackle to make real, meaningful
change. Instead of organic versus local, or organic versus anything,
can we set aside our differences to make that change?
Cindy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Moses <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Local vs organic
Hello All--
When I put in my 2 cents about Naturally Grown I had no
idea it would lead to this. I must assume that some of the puss
demonstrated in these e-mails is evidence of some infection that needs a
little healing. As nasty as some of the finger pointing and name
calling can be it is a sign that there are things that need addressing.
Sometimes I wish I could just join another species but I guess I am
stuck with this one. And let me say that I am not immune to finger
pointing and that I will no doubt do some before I am through.
Although some of what Cindy says is counter-productive, her
basic question is a good one. Why is there no state wide organization
to advance the interests of those farmers who are not "on the
reservation"? I believe that one of the main reasons that this is true
does not involve any ones failure or arrogance but stems from a basic
fact that Michigan is a large state. It is easy to be envious of the
level of organization in the New England states, but I am convinced that
this is true at least in part because of their size. OGM never was a
state wide organization in a real sense because of that. I personally
have no idea how to get around that basic fact. Maybe we all should
accept that and work in our own smaller areas as John and Cindy have
done and as Pat points out has had some degree of success in the past.
In any case, if you have no idea how to address this problem, please
refrain from calling others names until you have attempted to come up
with an answer.
A second problem is our lack of numbers. As OGM and other
organizations attempted to operate a state-wide organization in a
physically large state the demands of travel fell on a small number of
individuals. Some people carrying a big part of the load is common in
any organization, long distances and small numbers of people make it
worse. How do we solve that?
I could speculate that our small numbers are for any number
of reasons. I could point to our tendency to fracture over any issue
that comes along because that is our history. I could point to an
Uncooperative Extension system that is, in my experience, adversarial
beyond what I hear from farmers in other states. Both of these things
are true but I see them as symptoms and not causes. This is where I
want to do my finger pointing.
I wish our problems were as simple as the "nationalization"
of organic by the NOP. That has created problems and I have no quarrel
with those like the Dutchers who have chosen to stand aside and direct
market based on their own reputation, which I know to be a good one.
But all our problems do not come from Washington D. C. We have many
other enemies, and I do nor use that word lightly. And we should be
proud that we do, damn proud. While we may see ourselves as
disorganized, under capitalized, runt fleas on the tail of the dog, the
tide of events is on our side. Even in our pitiful state of
disorganization we have put fear into our enemies, and growing numbers
seek us out to be our customers..
Because of this, our growing traction, we have become
targets for enemies not just in Washington D. C. but in Lansing, East
Lansing and Battle Creek. The governmental agencies and the non-profits
that are controlled by the old system are not our friends. We can never
expect that their "help" will come without a price.
As I started all this, I wanted to say that the price of
accepting the "help" of Naturally Grown and Farm Certified is that you
have to accept lying to your customers. We have moved on to bigger
subjects and more important ones. Do we have any answers to the
problems of trying to build state-wide organizations? For myself, I do
not know what those answers are. Let me ask another question. What
would we do if we could form such a group? Do any of us believe that we
can influence the direction of the state of Michigan or the land grant
college? We can dream of this but are these dreams realistic at this
time? Are we so insecure that we think that we need their sanction?
What we can do is work in our own neighborhoods to build
local infrastructure much as Cindy Dutcher describes. But I disagree
with some of what she says about the NOP, and I disagreed with some of
you about the NOP in the beginning(I liked Jim Riddle's American Organic
Standard) and I disagreed with the Michigan Organic Law and on and on
and on. That does not mean that I have not noticed those things about
which we agree.
Are our differences of opinion as difficult and
unchangeable as driving back and forth from say the Keewanau to meetings
in Grand Rapids. If they are THEN HEAVEN HELP US.
The free ride from the Old Energy is coming to an end. The
Earth Changes are coming to teach us that our little tribal wars and
petty feuds are stupid and self defeating.
I know that I have bumped heads with many who will read
this and if I have not I may in the future. All I need to get beyond
that is to see you as my neighbor. Right now my neighborhood is
shrinking as I apply myself closer to home. But the enemy is the same
everywhere and as we battle for our Home we should be shoulder to
shoulder.
Blessings and Balance
Jim Moses
Pat Whethan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I don't know how this discussion track morphed into OGM
bashing but I would like to add some comments.
For many years OGM was a wonderful organization.
Depending on the chapter, of course, members were willing to share
knowledge and even markets with newcomers, and it was entirely through
these meetings and discussions that some of us made the decision to
transition to organic and get certified. There were always some members
who were reluctant to share and a few who were downright hostile to new
farmers and outsiders.
There were some chapters that had few meetings, so not a
lot of sharing. They existed mainly to get members in the area certified
because at the time all certifications were chapter based.
There was also a chapter apparently formed with some
serious flaws and used for personal reasons of a small group of growers.
Rumors about what that chapter actually did came to us at the time they
disbanded, but could not be adequately investigated by OGM. The way that
particular chapter treated growers not part of their "in group" was not
good, but please don't judge the whole of OGM by that. It was never true
of all chapters.
OFPA and NOP are what changed OGM. Certification became
the only focus because there was no time and energy left after dealing
with the changes wrought by government involvement. While I understand
the need for a uniform standard for organic production, the process of
getting that standard was difficult for all of us, and the final result
- not to mention changes to it that keep cropping up since - was less
than ideal.
Organic became politics and we all have different
political opinions. That's what it boils down to. Just as some
individuals opt out of other government processes and services, some
growers have opted out of the NOP organic certification process. The
reasons are political and philosophical, personal and religious. But we
still live in America, by gosh, so they have that right. It is not
really our place to criticize that decision, as it is not for us to
criticize religious decisions.
They also have the right to establish an alternative
system to recognize the way they farm. Certified Naturally Grown came to
be for that reason. As it is now, it functions the way much organic
certification did 25 - 30 years ago. And yes, it is a lesser inspection
and certification process; and yes, there is misuse and fraud going on
within it. But I've got news for you all: There is a great deal of
misuse and fraud going on in the NOP's organic certification system
also!
Our farm has maintained organic certification
consistently since we began it 19 years ago. It has changed a lot,
continues to change every year and boy, does it cost a lot more. But in
order to sell organic field crops we have to be part of that system. If
we were only producing crops for direct sale, we might feel differently
about certification, might even opt for something like CNG.
The local vs organic debate will no doubt continue for
some time. I like to hope that local organic will win out over
California organic and international organic and China organic. Some
means to differentiate the local organic is needed. Some means is needed
to differentiate not certified organic but grown to a high standard
local produce from run of the mill conventional locally produced
produce.
We gain nothing by bickering with each other over this.
We have a lot to gain by working together as we used to. All that energy
that once went into arguing about changes in organic standards could go
into creating an additional "system" that promotes local organic and
maybe also local ecological for farms that choose not to be part of the
NOP.
Pat Whetham
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