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Thanks again for the feedback Tim. Yea...the library interface options are pricy. As an example the FC bridge card for the quantum is around 3800.00 dollars. When you consider that many of the SAN device server options for the various top name backup packages (Syncsort, CommVault, Arcserve,BE, etc) are anywhere from about 800.00 to about 2000.00 per server and when your looking at moving 18 to 20 servers over to the SAN, it kind of becomes a question of how many SAN Server options do you purchase so that traffic is over the FC network, how many LAN based Backup clients do you purchase, and how do you best utilize D2D2Tape options to accomplish the backups within your windows and protection/recovery scheme. And when you don't have the SAN infrastructure in place yet to test the various backup products, their options (SQL, Share Point, claims to fame, the combination of San Device server/Lan client/D2D2Tape options, and in our case the multi-OS support...well..it gets to be a lot to digest and try and figure out. As we all know....there is a lot of marketing fluff with the backup stuff. Honestly going in to this I thought figuring out the actual SAN hardware side of things was going to be the complicated part. But as seems to be the case most of the time, the backup stuff is what has proven to be time consuming, full different configuration scenarios to work through, and more costly than expected if you want to move that backup traffic over to the fibre network. But hey...I just saved a ton of money by switching to Geiko...lol As for the higher-end support options from Dell. When have gone with that on a few of our more critical servers...but for a vast majority of our stuff, we stick with the standard 8-5 Monday through Friday, next business day support. And for stuff that has dropped off Dell warranty, we also have gone to Service express with similar support and have been happy with them. The blame game thing on the tapes...sorry but to me that just always seems like a cop-out and I loose a lot of respect for that company's tech support person when those types of excuses are used. In the case of tapes, I don't believe Dell is in the business of producing their own backup tapes (I could be wrong). Majority of them are from a few name brand manufacturers like Fuji, Maxell, Verbatim, Sony, etc., and chances are Dell is getting their stock from one of them...or many of them...depending on where their buyers can get the best price at the time. But I do understand where you are coming from. Anything to remove the excuse from being used. But it's sad I think when we as tech people have to adjust to thinking this way. Thanks again to everyone for the various input I have received...I appreciate the sharing. - Al -- =============================== Al Bray Systems Analyst University Services Michigan State University Phone: 517-355-0357 Ext. 161 Fax: 517-353-2024 email: [log in to unmask] >>> On 6/9/2006 at 10:44 am, in message <[log in to unmask]>, "First, Tim" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I believe with the Dell boxes (they're all made by ADIC, at least the > library's are) you can just replace the interface card to switch from > SCSI to Fiber Channel. That card is not cheap at all, but I believe you > can do a replacement. I'm not 100% on that for the ML6000's, but I know > the 136T can be converted after purchase. We currently start our > backups at 9PM and are finishing around 7AM. With the growth we've > already seen and the amount we're anticipating we're adding the second > library to help us keep up. > > As a generality we don't use the higher end support options from Dell. > Most of our servers have bronze support (Next Business Day) with us > having a spare server onsite that we can steal parts from if necessary. > On critical servers we usually put Silver support on them, which gives > you 7x24 4-hour response. With tape library's, we actually use gold > support. The library going down has too much potential for major > disaster. As a result we go with higher end maintenance. > > On the 136T we have moved our maintenance to Service Express, and > actually have replacement parts sitting on the shelf onsite. We do this > just because we know that the picker will be getting replaced every > couple of months. > > While I understand your reasoning behind getting tapes through > University Stores, we have learned that when you have problems there > tends to be a desire by the support folks to blame the tape. To combat > this, we've been buying the tapes directly from Dell. Their pricing has > been very competitive and it totally gets you out of the blame game as > to who caused a problem. > > -tim > > ________________________________ > Timothy D. First, MCSE > Information Technologist III > > Michigan State University > Administrative Information Services > > [log in to unmask] > (517) 353-4420 x335 > Fax: (517) 355-5176 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Bray [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 3:00 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [MSUNAG] Backup Devices/Media > > Hey Tim, > > Thanks for the feedback on the Dell ML6000 line. I had looked at the > Dell tape libraries through the link via the MSU Computer Store Premier > Pricing when I initially started looking for a replacement library. But > the ML6000 stuff is kind of buried out there and all I was seeing at the > time was the 136T and 132T systems. Actually looking today, still have > to drill down. I should have known Dell had a product line similar to > the Quantum PX500 line. > > The ML6010 is more in-line with what I was looking for as far as feature > set and the pricing/performance specs are as good if not a little better > than the Quantum PX502 (especially if you consider that with the DELL, > our price includes the 3 Year BASIC hardware warranty). > > I also like their modular approach for possible future growth on the > ML6000 line. But to be honest...the base 36 slots is probably way more > than we will need before the product lives out it's life cycle for us. > > Only thing that the Quantum line had was that you could buy their PX50X > stuff with the Ultra 160 LVD SCSI drive /interface and then install a > fibre bridge option when ready to move it over to a fibre network. > There were some advantages to this configuration like lower cost drives > and flexibility to start out with it working over the LAN and being able > to move it over to the FC network without a total reinvestment. But also > I wondered about the performance one would give up bridging instead of > using native FC. As far as I can see with the Dell ML6000, you choose > wither LVD SCSI or FC configuration from the get go. Of course I > haven't called Dell yet to confirm this. > > Anyway...thanks for bringing the PowerVault ML6000 line to my attention. > Definitely worth a look and since your seeing impressive performance > with the big brother of this line in your test environment, that is good > to know. > > On a side note, another reason I was asking how prevalent the LTO-3 > drives were on campus is because I am going to talk to Stores and see > what they can start stocking the LTO-3 tapes. When we moved from DAT to > DLT, we got them to stock the tapes. Over the years that worked out > well because they could buy them in quantity and pass on the savings and > ordering them from Stores was a lot less hassle (even with open orders > and the procurement cards available). I want to approach them about > doing the same with the LTO-3 tapes but haven't a clue how many people > are using the LTO-3 stuff here on campus. > > Again, thanks for your feedback Tim. > > - Al > > > > > > >