MSU Listserv


MICH-ORGANIC Archives

MICH-ORGANIC Archives


MICH-ORGANIC@LIST.MSU.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV at MSU

LISTSERV at MSU

MICH-ORGANIC Home

MICH-ORGANIC Home

MICH-ORGANIC  March 2007

MICH-ORGANIC March 2007

Subject:

Re: OGM and organic vs. local...

From:

Donald Dunklee <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Donald Dunklee <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:12:03 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (252 lines)

Dr. Tom,

With Respect....

I agree to an extent....some of us, however honestly did not have the  
time available to devote to helping with the details.  I am proud of my  
OGM and I sincerely thank those who did the "busy work" on our behalf.   
I do resent the tone that we do not or did not care, that is a self  
centered remark.  I work "off farm" 70 hours a week.  My farm is my  
passion, and my future retirement income...that is the reason I am  
building the infrastructure....maintaining my organic standards...and  
preparing for later federal certification..(when I can afford it,  
college is expensive for 3 children).

When I can afford to retire in a couple of years (I  am 51) I want to  
live off my farm income.  It will not be a lot, all of you know farming  
on a small scale often needs outside financial input to "maintain" the  
lifestyle we have chosen.   To angrily toss all of us into the group  
you mention is simply not fair, and could be the reason some have  
stayed in the background.  Having said that, you are correct that some  
(most?? all??)  "take advantage" of the organic label, however the ones  
who are doing the most damage to organic standards are not the little  
guys....it is the large corporations.  And Pat, I do thank you.  And  
every time I go to my mom's house (she passed recently) as I drive by  
your farm and say thank you for all you have done for us......if I see  
you outside I will stop one of these days.

Related, there is at least one grower near me still using the OGM  
certificate, posted in a local business, to give the public the  
impression they are certified.  The business accepted this certificate  
as fact, despite the federal changes.  Those are the people you should  
address your note to, not a blanket "Nancy and I left the state and it  
all went to pot"......the federal standard is too expensive for some of  
us smaller people.  You left the state in the transition and OGM,s  
death was a result of the cost of federal changes, not your leaving. I  
won't lie and lead the public to  believe my farm is certified since  
the expiration of my certificate, but I am proud of maintaining organic  
standards and practices.

regards,

don dunklee



On Mar 15, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Dr Tom Zennie wrote:

> The main reason OGM is no longer certifying growers is that the  
> growers themselves didn't give a shit about OGM. The majority of  most  
> OGM growers/members only cared about getting their value added organic  
> certification for the cheapest price with the least hassle. It was a  
> great organization while it lasted. We could have easily withstood an  
> audit but there was no one to step up to the plate and take some  
> responsibility for the time and effort to organize the records. Pat  
> Whetham could only do so much. and she did a lot!
>
> BTW, the truth be told, the main people for getting OGM accredited  
> with the USDA are : Grey Larison, Pat Whetham, Nancy Zennie and me. No  
> one else even comes in a distant  fifth or sixth.  Nancy and I left  
> the state and the whole thing went to pot...
>
> OGM was a purely volunteer organization of  like minded  
> philosophically organic farmers that wanted to help each other and  
> their neighbors raise healthy food. It changed however...
>
> p.s. Where are the majority of growers now getting certified? I'd bet  
> they not getting it from the "state organic program"!!!!
>
> Zen Sheep Farm
> Tom and Nancy Zennie
> 4963 E CR 900 S
> Cloverdale, IN 46120
> Phone: 765-795-5526
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taylor Clarkston Reid"  
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: "Dr Tom Zennie" <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] organic vs. local...
>
>
>> I agree with the importance of certification as well, but am a little  
>> bit uncomfortable with the local versus organic idea.  I think they  
>> should compliment each other not fight it out.  I don't think all  
>> certified products are the same, and wish there was a way to  
>> differentiate local certified organic.  Certified growers should be  
>> rewarded, there is no substitution for that, and meaningless labels  
>> certainly aren't helpful.
>> At the same time I know from reading old OGM newsletters that the  
>> three of you (Tom, Susan, and Jim) spent a lot of time and energy  
>> working on getting OGM to be an NOP certifier, and it seems pretty  
>> messed up to me that part of the reason it's no longer one is the  
>> audit process, when there are 40 foreign certifiers who have never  
>> been audited, not to mention those programs that have been recognized  
>> as 'equivalent' with no oversight from NOP at all.
>> I also know from reading the info that the Center for Food Safety's  
>> FOIA request (eventually) yielded, that not all certifiers are the  
>> same, even within the U.S.  I am wary of certifiers whose main goal  
>> is profit, and of large organic or mixed conventional/organic  
>> operations for whom the profit motive, not the health of the the soil  
>> or the ecosystem is the main concern.
>> I think that there is a value to local as well as organic, and though  
>> I agree that certification is essential, I don't think it's a  
>> substitute for knowing your grower.  To me, Sue's greens or Jim's  
>> mushrooms are a hell of a lot more valuable and meaningful than  
>> something I get in a box from California or Japan, because I have met  
>> them and been on their farms. There is still an element of trust  
>> involved, and for me a green and white circle, though better than  
>> nothing, isn't really enough.
>> Certified organic is important to me, and I agree there is currently  
>> no viable substitute.  But fresh, local, and grown with care and  
>> respect for the the earth is important too.
>> Respectfully,
>> Taylor Reid
>>
>>
>>
>>   Dr Tom Zennie writes:
>>> I second Jim's statements. Without a third party oversight this  
>>> whole thing could be loaded with fraud. Some of these same "natural"  
>>> farmers still use agricultural products from the "local" elevator.  
>>> The same GMO corn and soybeans that the organic people would  
>>> definitely lose certification over! A lot of these same people also  
>>> still think that roundup herbicide is OK because it so short  
>>> lived...
>>>   ----- Original Message -----   From: Jim Moses To:  
>>> [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:57 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: FW: [SANET-MG] organic vs. local... Regarding  
>>> Certified Naturally Grown--
>>>        I checked this label out two years ago and was not impressed.  
>>> They claimed that their "standards" were the same as NOP.  But at  
>>> that time you could access application forms of certified growers  
>>> and many listed violations of NOP standards like prohibited inputs,  
>>> commercial transplants, treated seed etc.
>>>        It is time to deal seriously with nostalgia for the "good old  
>>> days" of organic agriculture, that never really existed.  The fraud  
>>> and ignorance that existed when everyone had their own standard is  
>>> nothing we should want to return.  There is a cost involved in  
>>> offering the public third-party certified organic products.  Anyone  
>>> who wants to make these claims should be willing to contribute.  If  
>>> you want to identify who is getting the short end of the stick, ask  
>>> yourself this.  What about the growers who pay their dues and  
>>> receive no protection from the state and federal agencies who are  
>>> pledged to eliminate fraud?  What about the increasing number of  
>>> questionable labels backed by foundation money that undermine  
>>> certified organic?  What about the whole phony "Local" verses  
>>> "Organic" campaign that clearly has some BIG money behind it?   
>>> Divide and conqueror, it is an old story, but it still works. Jim  
>>> Moses Vicki Morrone <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>     Hey folks
>>>     This is an interesting alternative to certified organic and  
>>> probably
>>>     would do well at small markets and farmers markets, at this  
>>> time. But
>>>     then a farmer could combine organic certification with the  
>>> farmer pledge
>>>     that MOFFA is promoting and cover all the bases and be able to  
>>> sell
>>>     foods labeled organic. Have you looked into Certified Naturally  
>>> Grown? It's a great
>>>     alternative and self governing as it was in the old days of  
>>> Organic. You
>>>     rely on other local farmers, customers or the County Extension  
>>> to inpect
>>>     your farm.
>>>     It's a non profit organization. They do ask for donations and  
>>> they also
>>>     sell stickers with the CNG logo. You can download brochures  
>>> online for
>>>     hand outs explaining the program. The website address is
>>>     www.naturallygrown.org
>>>     They have a questionaire to cover all aspects of Naturally Grown  
>>> so
>>>     inspection is easy and informative to the consumer, too. I  
>>> wonder if this program is catching on yet in California?   
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>     >From: Douglas Hinds >Sent: Mar 10, 2007 3:03 PM
>>>     >To: [log in to unmask]
>>>     >Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] organic vs. local... >
>>>     most left because of the State and USDA take over of the
>>>     >> word organic, we were the volunteers of America now we are  
>>> forced
>>>     >> slaves to the USDA the certifier and the inspector and the  
>>> state.
>>>     >> On years like this one with the freeze they make their money  
>>> even
>>>     >> when I loose money. hehe . My customers that I had for years
>>>     >> forced me to be certified after the USDA takeover if I wanted  
>>> to
>>>     >> keep selling to them so if I want to tell my customer I'm  
>>> organic
>>>     >> I have to pay the organic police. >
>>>     >We knew this would happen, ahead of time, of course (and there
>>>     >weren't that many of us that knew what to expect).
>>>     >
>>>     >> I pay a organic tax because I don't use anything.
>>>     >
>>>     >You pay the penalty for the OFPA's having the wrong focus. (And  
>>> third
>>>     >party certification became a big industry, with greater  
>>> authority
>>>     >than the farmers themselves, thanks to OFPA).
>>>     >
>>>     >> I have to fill out reports and pay the USDA saying I don't use
>>>     >> anything while the USDA will not label GMOs, pesticides,
>>>     >> herbicides, fertilizers that kill life on the earth. Its all
>>>     >> backwards.  
>>> https://finerworks.com/mgallery/artists.asp?U_ID=goldpearl  
>>> ________________________________________
>>>     PeoplePC Online
>>>     A better way to Internet
>>>     http://www.peoplepc.com  
>>> ********************************************************
>>>     To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
>>>     1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to  
>>> unsubscribe or;
>>>     2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to
>>>     the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the  
>>> message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
>>>     http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
>>>     Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
>>>     For more information on grants and other resources available  
>>> through the
>>>     SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. If you would  
>>> like to access previous postings to the Mich-Organic listserv you  
>>> can copy and paste the following URL into your browser address bar
>>>     http://list.msu.edu/archives/mich-organic.html  
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> ---------
>>>   8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
>>>   with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. If you would like  
>>> to access a searchable archive of the all the previous Mich-Organic  
>>> listserv postings copy this URL and paste in your browser address  
>>> field http://list.msu.edu/archives/mich-organic.html If you would  
>>> like to access previous postings to the Mich-Organic listserv you  
>>> can copy and paste the following URL into your browser address bar
>>>  http://list.msu.edu/archives/mich-organic.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> If you would like to access previous postings to the Mich-Organic  
> listserv you can copy and paste the following URL into your browser  
> address bar
> http://list.msu.edu/archives/mich-organic.html
>

If you would like to access previous postings to the Mich-Organic listserv you can copy and paste the following URL into your browser address bar
 http://list.msu.edu/archives/mich-organic.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LIST.MSU.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager